New Vision for Old Vons Lot

Quite a sales pitch. The vision to densify downtown is a sell-out.

"vibrant sustainable urban spaces that add character and value to local neighborhoods and the community as a whole" and the densification of downtown with more condos is a contradiction.

"construction is expected to take 18 months."

Starting in year 2018 at the earliest?

Where is the market and financing for more unaffordable condos and empty commercial space downtown?

Too big next to the Arlington. Views of the most singular building in the downtown area will be lost almost completely from Victoria Street. Look at the story poles.

Also, too pricey. IMHO, we shoujld support affordable rental development downtown but there is no market for million dollar plus condos, nor will there be even by 2018.

I didn't realize that the most interesting position to view the Arlington was from its side/rear.

Also, out of curiosity, where in the article was there mention of the price of these condos? how do we already know they're too pricey?

Contrary to the above posters, I think this is a GREAT idea and a GREAT project. I can't believe people want to "preserve" a dumpy rundown grocery store. What kind of visionaries are you progressives in Santa Barbara anyway? Give me a break! What a bunch of whiners! Kudos to City officials for giving this project the green light, and for its builders/architects for having the moxy to fight the fossilized-status-quo mentality in this (so-called enlightened) town.

I, for one, am tired of seeing over-priced condos being built and sitting empty for months because no one can afford them. More high priced housing, even if it is balanced with a few "affordable" units, contributes to the pushing away of middle class folks and artists who make this town vibrant and more than just a pretty place.

I live in the neighborhood and would prefer to see the old grocery store refurbished and replaced with a decent, organic market, something along the lines of tri-county produce. Local, fresh, affordable food. We need this option in the neighborhood, and there are certainly enough people living in the immediate area to support such a thing.

Also, the article makes no mention of the traffic impacts of 37 new residential units on a street that's already very busy.

I am glad to see that they have plans to preserve the classic mosaic on Victoria St. (BTW, it is a MOSAIC, not a mural.)

re: Maximum:
What in the world is "visionary" about yet more high-priced condos in downtown Santa Barbara? This project is not "progressive"; on the contrary, it's absolutely status quo for the Santa Barbara of today.

For a "visionary" plan, how about this...Let's repurpose the location to build a "City Market" where local vendors can sell their goods - produce, artwork, etcetera. Let's create a vibrant commercial zone and a cultural space that truly welcomes the spirit that makes Santa Barbara special. It would be a place for locals to meet, do business, enjoy, etc... and it would be a magnet for tourists. It could be built as a semi-enclosed market space, with a couple of levels, a large courtyard with beautiful fountains and iron work. Many other cities in the world have vibrant City Markets: Washington DC, Savannah, and New Orleans come to mind, but there are many others. Locals often consider their city market to be the heart and soul of the community. Santa Barbara could and should have something similar.

Well, the city voted down Measure B, which would have established height limits. The argument against B was that developers need the freedom to put affordable housing units on the top floors. Remember Pueblo's campaigning? Will we have affordable rentals on top of this thing? Uh, oh yeah, that was just the developers tricking Pueblo and other anti-B people. BTW, Vote yes on 19 in November, BH

Any idea how much these condos will go for? What is the vacancy rate on the Chapala One condos? If this march uptown continues, what's next, tear down Derf's cafe and put the next 30+unit 40' building in? I'm not being rhetorical, I really wonder.

This project is absurdly humongous. Whatever happened to the old slow growth Santa Barbara? The city is being hijacked by developers. We need a slow growth plank of candidates for the next citywide elections.

If any of you whiners knew anything about "old world" marketplaces you'd know they are built in the midst of densely populated urban centers. I love the idea of a "marketplace" but they don't exist in a void to serve selfish slowgressives. Which, on balance, is a better name for all of you!

No quotes from Commissioner Lodge about this 'high-rise'? It is after all 4 feet taller than the narrow SEPV group's height tolerance levels. Beware this commisioner is still running around manipulating the voters 'will' by instilling her group's narrow view, the losing side of the SEPV's Measure B initiative into Plan Santa Barbara.

The marketplace is a great idea but perhaps this developer/property owner had a different vision for their property. The RDA (city council) could consider this marketplace idea but with limited RDA lifetime left and space it seems unlikely. Good thing the big box Ralphs is just a few blocks away. Chapala Street could be a much better neighborhood experience but it is dominated by parking lots (marketplace location?) high-speed one-way traffic. This could be worked on except for all those influential suburban Mesa, San Roque, Samarkand and Riviera voters feigning injury should they ever have to Slow Down Santa Barbara.

Financing or demand should not be a worry. We should consider this project as a private "stimulous" to our capitalist economy. Hopefully the jobs and tax revenue will be the chicken or the egg to restart the local economic engine. I'm still waiting for our 3 'conservative' council members to initiate a "no growth" initiative, aren't you.

Views! Take a look at the Arlington from State Street or it's own kiosk! Are we now to halt all development not only based on the view of the glorious mountains but also every edifice?

I remember riding in the family car as a kid in the early 1960s after a parade, passing the mural & marveling at the secondary spectacle, a real, live traffic jam! Five cars (more or less) were backed up at the stop sign. Before long, the red neon FOX lettering was cruelly taken off the Arlington Theater tower. Also around that time, the middle was removed from Almond Joy candy bars ("Now two bars for the price of one!") while the price was raised to 15 cents. Next, a Third World wealth distribution!

Whatever happened to the CIVIC CENTER idea for the Arlington Theatre area? One that would also incorporate the Victoria Theatre? A centralized, pedestrian friendly convention center would invigorate downtown and now they're talking CONDOS and Mixed use? come on....

I didn't think the economics made sense for developers building expensive condos in this town anymore. Whoever finances this project will lose their shirts unless they can sell 1200 square foot two bedroom apartments for less than $1 million, which is IMPOSSIBLE given local land/construction costs.

And who the hell are the lottery winning FIVE affordable housing morons? Work hard, save up, and you still can't buy a pad in SB, but somebody who never stayed up late studying to do well on a college exam gets a "special deal" because he makes a low income commensurate with his lack of education?

TOTAL LOAD OF BS ALL AROUND

Lars: I think you're making too many assumptions and perhaps project to much.

One by one, functional neighborhoods in SB are being eliminated in favor of these dense, huge, treeless, ugly projects. Good luck trying to find places to shop or eat, get your hair cut, buy dog food(oh wait...dogs aren't ALLOWED in SB!), get your car fixed (oh wait...SB wants to get rid of all the cars and force everyone to bike and hike everywhere...even though there is nowhere within MILES to shop!), buy clothes, go to the doctor, grab a cup of coffee or lunch (yup..Carrows got pushed out by a greedy developer hoping to cram in...you guessed it...condos!), or buy furniture, etc.

No neighborhoods. Just development after development after development...punctuated by the occasional pricey mall requiring a drive and costly parking. Good luck walking to the store...there isn't one in the neighborhood, because the neighborhood has been eliminated, leaving a sea of overpriced housing filled with more humanity.

10 pounds of poop in a 5 pound sack...

When will we ever learn?

What passes for urban planning in SB gives me a headache.

"Also, the article makes no mention of the traffic impacts of 37 new residential units on a street that's already very busy. "

What "new math" must be used to come up with the idea that 37 residential units would create more traffic than the grocery store that has been there before?

The traffic nightmare will be created from the construction process...

Does seem unlikely that this will get funded and built any time soon though... how many other projects like this are still sitting unsold right now?

More $$$ condos no one will buy? Have we learned nothing?

How about a park....

Holly; Change is difficult. I wish we could freeze time. Most of your comments are the opposite of my experience. Some dysfunctional neighborhoods could use some development to fix problems. I know; that's counterintuitive to most. But we do have aging and decay and just bad design to begin with; so that needs replacing. So, we do tear down and rebuild. Your point about the closing of Carrows Restaurant I think was a business decision of the corporation as they closed many locations at the same time and irrespective of any pending development.

The new condo without amenities model (no swimming pool, no lush grounds) has proven a failure locally except for a couple developers who started their projects well before the market peaked.

This project will fail just like Chapala One. Land and construction costs in SB are too high. Not to mention, the real estate market could still keep sinking or at best remain on life support for years.

I like the park idea.

belkissa, you read my mind!!

"I live in the neighborhood and would prefer to see the old grocery store refurbished and replaced with a decent, organic market, something along the lines of tri-county produce. Local, fresh, affordable food. We need this option in the neighborhood, and there are certainly enough people living in the immediate area to support such a thing."

Let's see:
Overpriced condos---check.
"Affordable" condos---check.
Mini- & mondo- condos---check-check.
Underground parking structure---check.
Retail shops & market---check.
Arlington Theatre visually unblighted---check.
Historic mosaic mural relocated & maintained---check.

I can already hear the lines forming and opposing camps hammering tentstakes fresh from overuse over at that bridge on the other side of San Marcos Pass, you know the one.

Kicking & screaming, Santa Barbara drags itself slowly forward pulling the past along with it as it slams itself into the future.

No matter what happens, it will surely beat the beegeezuz outta that horrid old gloomy Von's that used to blight the neighborhood.

But wait a minute---no secondary skate park?
Pshawwww!

We don't need another park. The homeless have enough options as it is. The only way I'd want this property to be converted to a public park is if it didn't raise my taxes one cent and any costs associated with the upkeep and policing were also donated by a wealthy financier in perpetuity.

The condos will sell (eventually) and those extra 37 people/families will help support the local businesses in that area. The traffic impact will be far less than the old Von's. Oh, and for those commenters above that say it should be turned into a market...read the first paragraph of the article...there is GOING TO BE A MARKET! I thought this was Wine Country...not Whine Country.

Yes, it does seem that projects similar to this have had problems. But, of course, blackmailing the developer into providing some "inclusionary" units simply raises the prices on the other units. Do people actually think that these mandates get paid for out of the developers' pockets? Do those same people have any understanding of economics, finance, the operation of the marketplace, private property rights, etc. (That last was rhetorical). Not that we should have NO controls, but what if the level of regulation was cut back by, say, 50%? Haveta wonder what would happen to prices then?

That's a great idea to include guest rooms! I've never heard of that before and love the idea. Young single people who only want to pay for a studio or one bedroom can have a nice space for their parents or friends to stay when they visit. Sleeping on the floor of a rental unit is no way to welcome your family! What a creative solution! I really appreciate this customized consideration of the needs of future occupants.

Are these the same people who co signed Casa Esparonza?
Watch out SB!

"37 residential condos, a market, and commercial retail space, altogether occupying about 100,000 square feet of space" where the old Safeway was? = OMG times 10

Wow, the shear size of this should be a red flag. Seems the main focus is on the views of the Arlington not what is going to happen, smashed in elbow to elbow below the views? Why not be weary of the impacts of so many uses on this parcel? Do we now have endless water supply, for example? I am sure Starbucks will like one of the retail slots if that is what we want.

The folks on the planning commission fell pray to this "Urban Crap" talking developer and her wordsmith Architect. I sure hope SB can demand a better use for this property without adding so many uses. Look at how Whole Earth finally fit in. Do we need a tear down and more expensive condos with big city underground parking? Did you know the open space for the condos is on the roof of the market? No ground level open space can be found! Parking is all underground, and about 1/2 as many as on level ground now since the other 1/2 will be behind a gate for condo owners. Can this be the future of plan Santa Barbara?.

As invaluable spaces are vacated & become available for sale in the downtown district, are we going to fill each one with one more sidewalk-adjacent large Condo Box? By abrogating our responsibi8lity to the whole, and turning it over to the chosen few, the other end of Chapala has already become a desolate and cold stretch of space. A downtown should have a variety of centralized public spaces for all to enjoy. Those spaces should have inviting open access for residents & visitors alike, and not be handed over to the control by a private few. A towns' downtown district should reflect the unique creative, artistic and cultural makeup of its location, citizenry, and history. It should include spaces for all to enjoy now, and not just for the 37 chosen few in 2018 who can afford to buy and thus secure a potential public space solely for their private use---many of whom may hold their units only for occasional occupancy as 2nd homes.

Santa Barbara should not sell out its' potential public spaces to greedy soulless box developers. Instead it should seize any opportunity to recognize and enhance its' vibrancy through imaginatively designed multi-use public spaces that meet multiple public needs. Condo boxes are a shortsighted use of invaluable space within a town's core area. This is poor, developer-controlled planning. When will we stop handing over the power to financially motivated developers to negatively represent and shape our town's very soul? Are we to be increasingly known only for our ticky-tacky privately owned & contrived pseudo Spanish style boxes?

There is, however, one uniquely creative private land use project I have seen in our downtown area. The award winning, unbelievably situated, imaginatively designed, and oh so commutable Abblits home. An astounding use of a typically undesirable and unbuildable space. Who would have thought?... It has succeeded on so many levels. The whimsical tile work alone sends me to heaven. It's evening lighting during the holidays made a confluence of shaby parking space and alleyways shine. No wonder, for so many reasons, it has become a not-to-be-missed sight on our visitors' tours.

It's a gamble for the developers, but they are not dopes.
Yes, the market is currently in the tank; but the market changes. It will be interesting to see if/when they pull the trigger and start spending $ on construction drawings.

The staff report says there are 29 one bedroom units, ranging in size from 658 to 1251 sqft (pretty big range). Unfortunately,
the staff report did not provide a breakdown. So if there is one unit at 658 sqft and the rest at 1251 sqft, this is a luxury project.
Can anyone enlighten me?

I disagree. There are lots of plenty of rich dopes (aka developers) especially in Santa Barbara.

I want to see every square inch of Santa Barbara developed. This way, kids won't get dirt on their clothes when they fall onto concrete because there will be no dirt, our fire dangers will be eliminated because there will be no more brush to burn, and we won't have those annoying leaves falling onto the ground.

I envision a sustainable future free from the noise of lawn mowers, leaf blowers, tree sap on my car, and a vibrant economy based on economic growth based on community investment.

Remember people: development is GOOD. Ask any long time resident in S.B. and they will tell you how much it's improved their day-to-day life.

One more thing: I also have some beachfront property in Kansas for sale. Any takers?

What is this "we" nonsense? The property is not "ours"; it belongs to the owner. If you want to control it, then buy it. Land use regulation here is tantamount to confiscation. Why are there no affordable homes? Lack of land, too many people, and overregulation. Want affordable housing? Move to a lower cost venue.

Oh would someone please suggest putting a Mosque on this site so we could really have a debate.

"Whine country - I love that! And Don - the mosque idea is priceless...

Move the sellers of the FARMERS MARKET there-- and KEEP THE MOSAIC IN PLACE. Why move it when it's stable where it is?

Above all, ADD TREES. That lot and the Arlington's are too bare of landscape as is.