Gut-Check Time

Why not just give McGrew the city's check book and let him pay the cops what he thinks they are worth? And why should the cops have to work all the way to age 50 - they should be able to retire with full pay at 35. It's outrageous to expect them to contribute to their own retirement plans. Since they have eliminated all crime in SB why even make them work at all?

They have done a good job in fighting the big bad "weed".

Reads like this slow-moving train wreck just sped up a bit.

I've seen On Patrol SBPD. These officers deserve every dime and benefit they get.

What if their salaries were double what they are, Don -- would they still deserve it all? Surely there is SOME limit to what is appropriate pay.

The fact is that they have high salaries, can retire with pension at 50, and pay nothing into that pension -- the sort of work they do is ALREADY FACTORED IN. And now they are entering into tin foil hat territory with their nonsense about Armstrong hiding monies. And you're right their with them with your "I saw it on TV" silliness. There's a lot that goes on that you DON'T see on TV, including the lives of people who are working just as hard for a lot less money. Of course a lot more of the funds for the police and other government functions should come from the corporations and uber-rich who hold 99% of the wealth while the rest of us scrape by, but the city administration can't fix THAT.

truth_machine; The wages and benefits are negotiated over time and reflects many factors including work performed, risks, cost of living (whether costs to live here or commuting,) the city's budget, etc. The "limit" is what is negotiated for at that time.

If someone gets their stuff together @ 20 years old and dedicates 30 years policing, then maybe that is actually a good time for officers to consider retiring. Some people bumble along for long periods of time working on dreamy degrees (often at the public's expense) and don't settle down until 40. That is one choice to make but I don't see why we should not negotiate superlative compensatory contracts for those that put their lives on the line on our behalf and in the most difficult situations.

Tin foiled hat theories are what occurs when people are not open and honest in their discussions. For all I know all these anonymous postings are the results of activists at the top who stir up and manipulate those at the bottom to be at each others throats rather than become active at demanding their fair share.

If you are dissatisfied with your earnings and benefits consider joining a union that is effective at negotiating your fair share of the American Dream. Bring up wages and benefits for everyone rather than tear them down. BTW, that is the best way to spur the economy.

The problem Don is that the cops are receiving benefit deals that are twice that of people doing comparable work requiring comparable training in private business and private businesses are leaving because of high taxes to pay the cops. The money has run out and there are hard choices to make. As far as getting higher pay for hazardous work, the guys lifting trash cans for Marborg have a much higher accident and injury rate that McGrew's crew.

Yeah, join a union and contribute to corrupt politicians and mobsters.

If it comes between a cop or a social worker getting their above private sector wages and benefits of early retirement, I go with giving it to the cops.

Maybe, just maybe their might be a whole lot more fat to cut in other departments. Cut that fat like they are to the police and the police might go along with their cuts.

reality_check; I wouldn't want to devalue trash hauler jobs but I think you're comparing apples to oranges. I am not necessarily of the opinion that job injury or mortality should be a big factor when negotiating for wages and benefits; because no one should expect to be injured or killed at any job.

But going into a para-military policing job for 30 years and the varied situations that are encountered I think would warrant much higher compensation. Anyway that is what contract negotiations are for; to determine the wage and benefit package. BTW Marborg employees if not happy about their benefits could, if they already have not, unionize and negotiate for safer conditions in their contract.

Ok Don I'll bite your apples to apples,

I'm comparing S.B. cops with soldiers behind sand bags and dodging IEDs and automatic weapons fire, morters and suicide bombers 24 hours a day.

The flak jacketed cops with fire arms and are chasing young gang bangers with knives on overtime or standing around waveing over cars on a DUI check...

How do those compenstaion schedules line up in your view?

sa1; The military is a dictatorship with some socialistic tendencies but no unions. That's just the way it is.

Apples to apples I do believe however that women and men serving in our military deserve at least as much as the highest paid contractors i.e. XE (Haliburton,) CACI, etc.

Does it seem to anyone that cops lost respect for citizens' rights after 9-11-2001? Maybe they need a wake-up call. Good-bye post 9-11 world, hello recession world. Having said that publicly, now I'd be wise to avoid traffic check points, or should I say arrests without cause.

Cops have a hard job. They are often told to do things they disagree with (e.g. busting big bad pot dealers), at the same time they do take on the gangs and the many other low lives who unfortunately inhabit SB.

I'm all for paying them whatever we can and making our police force a truly professional one.

But at the same time, times are hard and the economy isn't turning around as fast as we though. Everyone has to cut back. That's just how it is. No one ever wants to take a cut in their compensation, but that's where we're at. When times are better, I'm sure they will get it all back and then some.

Unions all over the US are fighting tooth and nail to keep everything they can for their members - that's what Unions do. You can't blame them for doing what they are supposed to.

What I do think the Unions need to do is get some better leadership so they can work with elected officials to come to agreements. Unions are normally staffed by union members who dont' have a lot of high level management and/or high level budgeting skills, hence why the POA had to outsource their discovery to an analyst in the bay area. As a result we're seeing Unions pushing back and refusing to work with officials all over the state.

Sometimes, even if you are 100% convinced you are in the right, you still have to compromise. It's what good leaders do.

bronc; The economy has been brought to this low level from bad management at the top of the economic food chain; you know those that are supposed to know better. So if anyone should take a cut it should be those at the top. Don't go after Cops pay or rank and file pay; go after CEOs, wall street pay. If you contract workers pay, the recession will expand.

Union contract negotiators are very professional and do know what they are doing. They often are very knowledgeable about finance and do indeed "pore" over financial reports when determining costs associated with raises and benefit improvements. And yes sometimes it is difficult to find silver linings stuffed away here and there. It seems as though the City of Santa Barbara may have a few "enterprise districts" that could in these difficult times postpone capital improvements and instead contribute a bit to wages.

BTW I am in favor of a cocktail taxes to fund police and court costs associated with our illustrious drunk district.

Don, I've admired many of your posts, but your response to me above is grossly intellectually dishonest; feh. Blather about anonymity is pure ad hominem, and is a childish dodge of my point about the claim that Armstrong is hiding monies. And what a joke that you would lecture me about unions -- I've been a union supporter and socialist since I first became politically conscious nearly 50 years ago. None of that addresses my substantive points.