Blaming the Unions

Dear Raven,

Especially in difficult and disconcerting times it is easy to conflate all issues. As you know collective bargaining is one of the most democratic process we have in this democratic republic. Republicans are trying to do away with the right to collective bargaining.

The issues of executive pay can be a bit more esoteric because you have to establish relativity, or relative to what. What does it cost to attract executive level personnel and at what caliber to advance an organization, even and especially in bad times. Sometimes it is best to promote from within and sometimes it is best seek new blood from elsewhere. It is all relative to the time, place and circumstances.

Decision by committee is often criticized but decision by one is dictatorial. The City of Santa Barbara attempts democratic processes that are often criticized and most residents only vaguely, or entirely do not, participate in. Then when they see changes they become irrational, hence we now have Francisco, Hotchkiss and Self.

These three are the examples of the real elitists dictators, assisted by those that wake up late in a process, don't understand the processes and then make charges of favoritism, elitism and corruption. Then they go on to do the same. These three are the people who would deny your right to collective bargaining, wages, benefits and I assume if given the opportunity your historical heritage.

The city attempts rational approaches to things like pedestrian safety not in a vacuum but with educated employees and sometimes contractors; not that mistakes can't occur. But we all make errors, nothing is perfect.

So while we defend our own rights we must be careful of who we criticize because there is a difference between error, misunderstanding and this outright stealthy right wing activism that is out there right now blaming Labor Unions for the nation's problems while advocating for the real elitists at the top 2 %.

The issue w/ unions is a complex equation that involves many variables. It ain't only a republican vs. democrat thing, it comes down to the greed exhibited by humans (the most prominent variable) across the board.
The union issue can't only be looked @ on the service union level, it also has to be looked @ on the industry level as well.
There was a time when "Made in the USA" stood for quality, durable, reliable goods.
Over time those products degraded to shoddy workmanship for a higher price. How could that happen? Very simple: Union business agents (BA's).
These are the greedy democrat equivalent to greedy republican politicians that greedy democrat politicians become beholden to from their political contributions to assure a warchest to fund re-election.
If there is an example of greed, BA's are definitely it. They convince the union rank & file that being union will provide them the high life that BA's enjoy.
But in reality the ONLY reason BA's enjoy said high life is from the ever increasing union dues the union rank & file pay monthly, not to mention kickbacks from union shops.
Everytime the unions get a contract ratified, sure, John/Jane union member is going to get a $1.00/hr raise, but guess what? Union dues go up, which then leads to the need for another raise & so on & so on, a never ending cycle of greed (BA's) & need (union rank & file).
Meanwhile employers are forced to shell out even more to produce a product or provide a service & over time that starts to degrade.
This is the epitome of lose-lose math where NOBODY wins & what appears to be a win is temporary @ best.
Eventually this translates to higher prices paid by the consumer & the end result is the recent backlash against unions.
On a personal basis, my involvement w/ unions was a learning experience that showed me the side where greed is the ever present variable.
BA's that would only come out to the job site when they were up for re-election & shop stewards that would look the other way for the promise of the high life from the BA's.
Meanwhile worker concerns went by the wayside or were addressed w/ lip service while union dues kept going up & workmanship quality decreased.
In all, it ain't a republican vs. democrat issue bacause they BOTH are the poblem. It is a human greed problem & there is no denying that fact. You can try to partisanize this all you want based on the approach, but the question remains: How did we get to this point?
Unions have outlived their usefulness, as much of what they clim to be "fighting for" is already law n the books. They have become nothing more than a legal scam w/ willing participants.
I have to admit, it is a brilliant scam, wish I would've thought of it! :) henry

Henry,

There are many examples of businesses abusing workers. Off-shoring of jobs is a current example and no laws protect the American worker from this effective shut out when it is done.

Could you give us a few examples of your BA trauma so we can understand? I was a union member for several years, AFL-CIO local 1062 Carpenters and Joiners, and went through an excellent apprentice training program. I saw the downfall of unions beginning as HUD, during Reagan, awarded contracts to non-union contractors.

We used to watch them sometimes, they were untrained and inefficient, but they were cheap. Like the workmanship they produced.

Unions effectively made the middle class possible in this country.

Don:

Your response was exactly the irrational doublespeak that makes Keith Olbermann or Bill O' Reilly popular. I thought we were over that type of BS and moving onto a new civility in America, or are you just happy being part of the problem.

I especially liked the "deny your historical heritage" comment, and can only chuckle over the fact that when a Union Member calls out some of the problems with city government created under the progressives it had to give you pause. How could you not be offensive to someone who didnt agree with you like you usually are while bringing it back to the dreaded conservatives because you clearly couldn't insult a union member.

The last time I saw someone scribble off diatribes who so detached from reality they were trying to argue Obama was responsible for the Iraq War not Bush.

PS Raven good luck in your negotiations, perhaps the drivers should point out if there are any big difference in pay scales between middle managers and drivers?

Rambler, it wasn't trauma, as I didn't allow myself to become a victim, It was experience.
Myself, AFL-CIO Carpenter's & Joiner's Local 727, Hialeah, FL. Went through the same apprenticeship program, saw some good stuff, saw lots that left much to be desired.
The HUGE difference is you were out West, I was back East where things are done "a little different" for lack of a better way of putting it.
During the Reagan years out in FL union labor didn't suffer the same way as out in CA, but that's where sweetheart deals were made @ the expense of the carpenter's union pension fund. They called it "concessions."
The ONLY guys that have received anything from it are, you guessed it, BA's while the regular Joe/Jane had to fight tooth & nail to get anything from it.
I'm happy for you that your union experience was positive, but I can honestly say that mine was a bit of a joke. That's why I left the trade & went on to study engineering & go into that particular field.
Not that it makes me better or anything like that, as to me a carpenter is a skilled craftsperson, as is a plumber or electrician. But I have to say my decision was based on things I saw & don't have to see anymore.
I agree w/ your last comment about unions & middle class, but that was when unions were a necessity.
These days, w/ all the special interest on both sides of the coin, it's what's in the middle that has been forgotten about :) henry

Go Raven! Teamsters Union Detroit 180 (1995-1996).

Charles.

Don you certainly contiue to show your social contract ignorance. We are a republic not a democracy. A democracy never works. Daniel Petry

I would agree that most public union workers do a good job and get paid a reasonable salary, benefits and retirement.
However, there are too many examples of high salaries, pension spiking and way to $100K+ retirement pensions.
While it might be true that the 'average' public retiree gets $36K a year, it's the ones that are retiring at 55 making $100K+ a year that people are rioting about and states are trying to reform.
I would think the public union workers would be rallying against these pension spikers that are ruining it for everyone else.
At the end of the day I have to ask what is wrong with SSI. Our government created it and yet they do not want to use it for themselves -- what's up with that?

When the people do not own the money and the private bankers do there are planned shortages designed to keep the populace poor and starving so they will not rise up (unions) and challenge the worthless parasites who control the economies and manipulate those economies through war, famine and disease. This has been going on for so long I give up. Listen to the brainwashed shills who cannot see above their small step on the pyramid and deserve to live like pigs because they do not understand one thing. "Whoever controls the money supply controls the world" A quote from Baron Nathan Rothschild, google: "Timeline of the Rothschilds" and wake up the fools.

Actually, blaming the unions, or more accurately, the collective bargaining processis not at all ridiculous. The incestuous relationship between govempoyee unions and elected officials should never have happened (FDR himself said the govemployees shold not be allowed to unionize. If ever there was an example of why, one need only review Gray Davis' monstrous increase in pension obligations as payback to the unions for his election to see why.

Counting UCSB, the two community colleges, all the school districts, the prison in Lompoc and all the other federal, local, and state government jobs in Santa Barbara County, there are a little over 58,000 government jobs in the County (which does not count the 2,900 federal DoD funded jobs at Raytheon and Lockheed). This consititues about 30% of all the jobs in the County. Before we all jump on the let's evicerate the public workforce bandwagon, we ought to consider how much of the economy in the County consists of the public sector workers spending their paychecks every two weeks. While there may be an unseemly appearing relationship between elected officials and public employees, those employees are 30% of the vote, nothing for a politician to sneeze at.

Eckermann, I would gladly shut down the vast majority of government funded jobs in this county, especially the ones that are tied to the DoD.

"More US Troop Deaths in Afghanistan in Obama’s Two Years Than in Bush’s Two Terms"

http://www.unelected.org/more-us-troo...

And that's just US Troop deaths, that doesn't include the innocent children and families that have died in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Raytheon employees bringing home a paycheck isn't worth killing all these innocent people overseas.

The problem is we act like if Raytheon stops getting government funding they will just shut down and everything will disappear. The fact is, all that expensive equipment will go to the highest bidder and the facility will still be there. Maybe someone can buy the facility and start designing and manufacturing solar panels, sustainable construction materials or advanced agricultural equipment that can produce large amounts of food in small areas with minimal fertilizers, etc.. Why can't we imagine a world where the infrastructure we already have can be used to build a better world? This IS possible, we just need to tell our government to stop putting money towards all of the negative stuff, this just pushes out the possibilities of what we could be doing for good.

Here is a great example of why public unions are so notoriously corrupt and why they don't do anything to help the employees:

"The union uses its bargaining rights to drum up business for its pet insurance company.

...

The fact is that the Wisconsin Education Association Council, the largest teachers union in the state, has grossly abused that privilege for decades, resulting in the unnecessary siphoning of millions of dollars from Wisconsin public schools.

Under current Wisconsin law, the identity of the insurance company that provides health coverage to school employees is a matter of collective bargaining in each school district.

In the majority of districts around the state, WEAC negotiators have used that law to pressure local school boards into purchasing coverage from WEA Trust, an insurance company established by and closely associated with the union.

WEA Trust offers very comprehensive health coverage, at a very high cost to schools. Most of the districts with the most expensive health premiums in the state are clients of WEA Trust. Most of the districts with the lowest premiums do business with other insurance carriers."

http://www.educationnews.org/ed_repor...

The Politics of Government Employee Unions:

http://mises.org/daily/5072/The-Polit...

Some people tend to get involved with right-wing-talking points. If there is a problem then it is solved by negotiation on that issue. Eliminating bargaining is not the solution. And there is often no perfect solution but anyone with some memory of just of a couple years know that this is just another pro corporate republican led money grab. They want lower pay for everyone, no benefits, and it appears that they are really after the very solvent and best model pension funds.

Negotiation has clearly not worked with the govemployeeunions - I suspect there is no better example than SB city and county. The politicians are just too beholden to the unions. Elimination of collective bargaining, or perhaps requiring the 'negotiated' contracts, to be approved by a 2/3 majority of voters, as is required for tax increases, would be a step in the right direction. To characterize this as 'just another pro corporate led money grab' is just a leftwing talking point and ignores one's own self-interest as a taxpayer. Unless, of course, one is of the large number of govemployeeunion voters.

So John Locke, if you think that union money has too much influence on politicians, what about the influence purchased by the rich donors like Koch and Murdock? Isn't that influence just as bad and doesn't it make politicians just as "beholden.?" You don't have to be fair and balanced, but at least you should pretend to be. Also, I just fail to understand why any free people of a democratic republic would want to have the majority's will overruled by one third (plus one) of the electorate. Isn't rule by the minority a form of dictatorship? Collective bargaining did not get us in the fiscal trouble we are in, the optimism that lead us to trust the Wall Street scammers brought us to this sad state. This is what comes from believing that you can get something from nothing. Con men find their marks among those of us who will believe that gold can be spun from straw. It just ain't so and never was. The key to recovering is for everyone, employees and employers, to sit down and come to solutions together. Imposing solutions from one side or the other will not work in the long run.

On further thought, with regard to your comment about "self-interest," I am a tax payer (in fact I pay a lot of taxes), and I believe that decent roads, fire protection, police, pollution control, public parks, waste water treatment, social security and medicare for my mother, land-use sanity, provision for the poor, and a host of other government programs are in my self-interest. I don't believe that my $50,000/year in income and property taxes is spent as efficiently as it could be, but, by and large, it provides public services that I value and appreciate and which further my interests. Rather than nick our local public servants to reduce public service costs, I would rather extricate ourselves from the wars were are prosecuting that do not serve my interest and quit building aircraft that the military doesn't even want.